Digg thread — Obamacare; Disastrous In Every Way

The complete ignorance of collectivists who constantly promote Force and Sacrifice on Digg has finally gotten my goat.  I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna TAKE IT anymore!

powerlineblog.com — The Democrats aretrying to rush their health care “reform” bill through Congress before anyone understands what is in it. The bill is intended to be the precursor of socialized medicine, the “single payer,” national health system that Great Britain, Canada and many other countries have tried, with uniformly awful results.  [entire Digg thread}

Extracted from 53 Comments, the communists/collectivists are in pinko:

tasine

…the issue for many of us truly isn’t solely about “health care” though we do defend the fine system we have in the states. What I believe is a bigger issue is that we want smaller, less intrusive government. Our government has grown FAR too large, dealing with things not in their realm of responsibility, things that belong to the private sector or state. The more it grows, the less efficient it is, and the less control we as a free people have. Many of us believe that is true in all countries that usurp private enterprise, including Canada. Many of us in the states resent creeping socialism, communism, marxism, and all other isms that eventually lead to tyranny. Why keep adding to that when there is no need whatsoever?

@tasine

“we do defend the fine system we have in the states.”

You mean the fine system that left my mother with no way to buy health insurance after she had cancer because my family had lost our health insurance plan due to a life threatening latex allergy that forced my father to stop practicing dentistry? The fine system that will allow a child to die if his parents make too much money to qualify for assistance (which I’m guessing you don’t want tax dollars to pay for anyway), but not enough money to pay for life saving treatment? The system that causes my grandparents endless worry about being a burden to the family when they can’t afford necessary medications?

If it’s worked well for you, that’s great. Despite my family’s problems, it has worked well for me, too, though I’ve only had one hospitalization and surgery. There are plenty of people who are doing everything right, but who get thrown off a cliff. Not that I’d expect you to show much compassion for them. You know, you can be a ridiculously partisan republican who will hate any health plan that comes out of a democratic administration, and yet still admit that we’ve got a problem with health care in this country.

tasine

EIR, I’m sorry for your family’s difficulties. Yes, people do fall through the cracks with our system and with all systems and I’m sure all of us regret that. I would never make light of your family’s problems. I’m not trying to be nasty, but what makes you believe that had we had universal health care the same things wouldn’t have happened – or worse?

“You know, you can be a ridiculously partisan republican who will hate any health plan that comes out of a democratic administration, and yet still admit that we’ve got a problem with health care in this country.”

That would be a funny comment were it not so silly. I WILL HATE ANY HEALTH PLAN THAT COMES OUT OF ANY US ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE HEALTH CARE IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS AND THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT. I do NOT WANT socialized medical care. I do not want anything socialized. Am I partisan? Yes, to the same degree most on Digg are. However, just so you know, I have resigned the Republican Party because they are so wimpy. I will carefully follow everything Obama does because I don’t trust him, I don’t like him, I don’t like his policies, I don’t like his philosophies – and it has nothing to do with the fact I was a Republican and he is a socialist. It has to do with my understanding what socialism is and what it will become eventually, NOT because I am smart, but because I know some history, I have a healthy skepticism, I follow no guru whatsoever, and I am a realist – NO health care system is perfect, and what we have as we speak, is the best in the world and I don’t want politicians trying to get votes by pandering mucking around with it. The primary problem we have in the health care industry is not a health care problem – it is a legal problem and for that reason will NEVER be solved. That problem is runaway lawsuits with no merit. What we NEED is NOT health care reform, but TORT REFORM. Know any lawyers or “legislators” willing to take a knife to that monster called ambulance chasing lotto? No, you don’t, and neither do I.

eir574

“I’m not trying to be nasty, but what makes you believe that had we had universal health care the same things wouldn’t have happened – or worse?”

Being entitled to health care is a big step forward for someone who couldn’t afford it at all. People complain about having the government decide what care you can and cannot receive, but this seems to be no worse, and perhaps better, than having an insurance company whose only motivation is profit decide what care you can and cannot receive. At least the government is technically responsible to the people. The insurance company is responsible to its shareholders. I have a better sense of what goes on in those companies since the only thing my father could do after losing his dental practice was to work in insurance.

“NO health care system is perfect, and what we have as we speak, is the best in the world”

It may be the best in the world for those who have access. If you don’t have much access to it, then it’s most certainly not the best in the world. Some like to paint those who don’t have access to good health care as lazy fools who aren’t motivated enough to provide for themselves. I wouldn’t call my parents lazy, though — just victims of circumstances that occur all the time in this country.

Did you know that a 2007 study showed that we rank 41st in maternal mortality among 171 nations studied (http://www.seattlepi.com/national/335391_maternal1 … )? One in 4800 women die from pregnancy complications, which ties us with Belarus and just barely edges out Serbia. Ireland came in first, with only one death in 47,6000. And that doesn’t even include other types of bad outcomes. Is that really such a fine health care system? Perhaps for the women who don’t die in childbirth.

The cost of lawsuits is a problem, of course, but you can’t get rid of them completely as some of them are quite valid. My sister once had complications after a surgical procedure to place a metal plate in her head, and the surgeon who went in to fix things up said he would support a malpractice claim. There were muscles that had been cut and hadn’t been sutured properly, there was a thumb print on the plate (??), and there were various other problems. Some claims are indeed valid. But, even if tort reform lowers the cost of health care, there will always be people who can’t afford the care they need for themselves and their families, and it will not always be the case that they’re simply lazy fools who would prefer to do nothing while someone else supports them.

Striker101

Everyone, that is, who works and can write a check, can choose to buy health care.

Those who don’t work are not entitled to have someone else pay for it. That is what our private property rights are all about. Survival of the fittest is supreme natural law.

eir574

“Everyone, that is, who works and can write a check, can choose to buy health care. ”

Patently untrue. Did you not read my post above? After my mother had cancer, insurance companies no longer wanted her business. But, you’d probably say she deserves to die after having had cancer.

_____________.

Oh, maybe I get it. You think that once my mother became virtually uninsurable at nearly any price, she should just have become a high powered CEO or something so that she could afford health care out of pocket. Does the same go for children?

i cannot believe that people can be so easily duped into thinking that they don’t want free health care…I realize a lot of money is being spent to confuse people but seriously, how feeble minded do you have to be to believe that we are better off with out the same health care system that every other civilized nation gives to their citizens? Meanwhile we have the highest mortality rate of any of the first world nations…go figure.

Hate to tell you, sweetie, but there is no such thing as free health care. Even if it is a free clinic, a free ward, a free health fair, etc. IT IS NOT FREE. SOMEONE pays for it. If you work you will pay for it with taxes. If you don’t work you probably get your health care ‘free’ anyway, courtesy of the taxpayers.

Don’t believe for one second that any nation “gives” free health care to their citizens. Governments do not have any money except that which they extract from people’s pockets which they can then give to others and that buys them votes in the next election.

Is there some particular reason you believe it is more fair for me to pay for your health care than it is for you to pay for your health care? Inquiring minds want to know why so many Americans feel no responsibility for themselves. Have we wimped out this far? Maybe our wimpiness is what has resulted in what you call the “highest mortality rate of any of the first world nations.”

BillE3

Considering how poorly the government has done with running its own affairs, I can not fathom how congress is going to do a better job of running healthcare. What I can fore see is how the bureaucracy will eat up a lot of the money allotted for healthcare. Government payroll will take precedent over actual medical treatment. A government run system is going to be top heavy with administrations and administrators which will be paid for before any money goes to patient care. The same amount of care and quality of care are a matter of time and the government is going to make it go so slow, it will not be good. I guess to offset the problems of providing care, congress can pass a national suicide assist law and give us all an option.

Striker101

Not to be buried in 3rd-level response where most of my effort would be lost in the fog.

@eir574 “Oh, maybe I get it. You think…” You have no clue what I think, and you cannot frame any argument based upon whatever you think that I think.

Other than that you are “A 31 year-old person who joined Digg on May 21st, 2007″, who looks like a cat in a box, and who has written 6322 comments to date but has never submitted an article. Your comments are rarely if ever on top-level, your “thing” is stalking and attacking others for your Collectivist cause — a reactionary, IOW don’t act, react.

So next you move to “oh pity me” “…my mother became virtually uninsurable…” which is to be blamed on the fact that you don’t qualify to be some “high powered CEO”? What really happened — your folks didn’t read the policy, or didn’t pay the premiums, and became “virtually uninsurable”? So that justifies shifting the blame and responsibility shifts to that “fine system”, which would mean that millions of other citizens (including myself and everyone else here on Digg) should be FORCED to SACRIFICE their property, and thus perhaps their lives, for your family, while letting their own family go without or even die? Are your parents somehow more important than mine, or your neighbor’s, or your mechanic’s?

Now I will TELL you what I think — I think that all of your whining is disgustingly immoral and evil. So before you start sticking labels on me, know that I am not Republican or Democrat, left or right, conservative nor liberal, because such labels cannot be clearly defined. I was not poured from a mold; I am ME; I insist upon individual sanctity. I think for myself and I am responsible for my own life and for the results of my own mistakes. I have no health insurance, but that’s not your problem. I refuse to be responsible for you, make that your problem.

http://morality101.net/blog/morality

Okay, that’s all for this one, you either get it or you don’t!